Abduction Digest, Number 55 Monday, April 6th 1992 (C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service. All Rights Reserved. Today's Topics: Re: Abduction Detection abductions Book Re: Abduction detection Re: Abduction detection Abduction Detection Abduction Detection Abduction Detection Rocky Mountain UFO Conference Dave Jacobs New Book Research Overweight? abduction research _Secret Life_ reviewed Re: Research Re: Overweight? Re: Overweight? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom.Davis@f201.n350.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Tom Davis) Subject: Re: Abduction Detection Date: 30 Mar 92 06:44:00 GMT The problem with such a device is that short of integrating it into a vital organ wherein removal would be fatal to the host, how would you make it non-detachable? Indeed, how would you integrate it without killing the host? I suspect that a race capable of inter stellar travel, the abduction of humans, and all the rest we sometimes attribute to the yet-unproven invaders, would have no difficulty in detecting a removing anything we could implant ourselves. -- Tom Davis - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Tom.Davis@f201.n350.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff) Subject: abductions Date: 2 Apr 92 03:00:02 GMT Hello Keith, I think there is another significant dilemma with hypnotic regression that has not been addressed since David Jacobs returned as moderator of this echo. Specifically, if an individual comes to a hypnotherapist for the purpose of learning more about their "abduction", has not the seed of potential fantasy already been sown in their minds? They are not seeking to find out *if* they were actually abducted - of that they are already convinced. They are seeking details of the event(s). A related question that comes to mind, is how many abductees have pursued therapy simply because they feel out of sorts, or that something "unconventional" may have occurred to them. There is no musing that anything as bizarre as an abduction might have occurred. The Hill case is of course a classic example of this genre. Neither Dr. Simon, nor the Hill's had any inkling of what was going to be revealed. Nowadays, both the patient *and* therapist *anticipate* an abduction to be disclosed. This element of expectation would seem to decisively prejudice the outcome, don't you think? I still am having a great deal of difficulty with David Jacobs conviction that virtually none of the abductees he has written about in his book _Secret Life_ are perchance suffering from some form of psychological irregularity. Jacobs recently stated on an American television show that he conducts a 1 1/2 hour long preliminary interview with his subjects prior to accepting them. If anything psychologically anomalous is apparent, he refers them to proper counseling. I am certainly not qualified in this area, but I do not comprehend how an individual's psyche can be accurately assessed in an hour and one half. It could take *years* to unsheathe well camouflaged aberrant behavior. Changing the subject, will you be attending the conference that David Pritchard is organizing this June at MIT? It sounds most intriguing. I would love to attend, but unfortunately admission is by invitation only, and I am not on the list. Hopefully, the conference proceedings will be available to us. Jenny Randles has written that she will be at MIT, and will also speak at a conference at the University of Nebraska in May. She will be stopping in Chicago for a day or two at which time we shall try to meet. I enjoyed reading your article, _Implants_ in the recent issue of _IUR_. Very well done... but how do you ever find the time for all that writing? You must be one of those lucky individuals that can get by on 4 hrs of sleep. Anyway, keep up the superb work. Take care, Sheldon -- Sheldon Wernikoff - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser) Subject: Book Date: 2 Apr 92 17:11:00 GMT Dave: You say the 40% overweight figure "probably" shows up in the abductee population as well; are you aware of whether or not a study has been done on this? Ray Maurer and I were discussing this aspect just last night. We spoke with the girl he called you about, and she is slightly overweight as well. This makes three of the four people I've dealt with (the fourth is almost painfully skinny). An admittedly very small sample, but it got me wondering. Jim -- Jim Speiser - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser) Subject: Re: Abduction detection Date: 2 Apr 92 17:13:00 GMT Dave (and all): Anybody have any suggestions as to how to hook up a motion detector to trigger a VCR? We have access to motion detectors, all we need now is a schematic. Jim -- Jim Speiser - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser) Subject: Re: Abduction detection Date: 2 Apr 92 17:21:00 GMT John: Ray Maurer and I have been discussing implementing this very concept. If we gave you some info on our motion detector and our camcorder or camera-VCR setup, do you think you could shoot us a schematic of how it should be hooked together? Jim -- Jim Speiser - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks) Subject: Abduction Detection Date: 1 Apr 92 20:48:00 GMT JP> if the monitor registers the telemetry device at 60,000 JP> ft., well... Couldn't argue with that very much. JP> And, at least JP> for me, it would be more important than a photograph any JP> day... Yes.....somewhat more difficult to fake. JP> and the medical/psychiatric community JP> should be embarassed and ashamed that a professor of JP> history had to go out to the fringes to codify something JP> that _they_ should have already been focused on and JP> addressing... The medical community, in general, suffers from their group mindset even when they disagree; plus, I think the "gatekeepers" keep the fringe stuff out of professional journals. A while back I talked with a very prominent local psychiatrist about the abduction phenomenon; he said he'd heard of it and wondered what was going on, but that he'd *never* seen any substantial information on the phenomenon upon which to begin serious consideration. And this guy is practically the "dean" of psychiatry in this area. He's open-minded, but oddball stories from space alien magazines are pretty useless to him. I think Dr. Jacobs used his abilities as a historian to great benefit in his abduction investigations; it's a much different viewpoint than the usual doctor-patient relationship. jbh -- John Hicks - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG (John Hicks) Subject: Abduction Detection Date: 2 Apr 92 18:39:00 GMT > The problem with such a device is that short of integrating it into a > vital organ wherein removal would be fatal to the host, how would you > make it non-detachable? Yes, that's the difficult part. > would have no difficulty in detecting a removing anything we could implant > ourselves. That's a key right there. If an abductee has a telemetry bracelet or whatever, which the person couldn't feasibly remove, if it vanishes, to some extent that would be "proof." jbh -- John Hicks - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: John.Hicks@f29.n363.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Subject: Abduction Detection Date: 4 Apr 92 02:03:00 GMT > JP> and the medical/psychiatric community > JP> should be embarassed and ashamed that a professor of > JP> history had to go out to the fringes to codify something > JP> that _they_ should have already been focused on and > JP> addressing... > > The medical community, in general, suffers from their group mindset > even when they disagree; plus, I think the "gatekeepers" keep the fringe > stuff out of professional journals. > A while back I talked with a very prominent local psychiatrist about > the abduction phenomenon; he said he'd heard of it and wondered what was > going on, but that he'd *never* seen any substantial information on the > phenomenon upon which to begin serious consideration. And this guy is > practically the "dean" of psychiatry in this area. > He's open-minded, but oddball stories from space alien magazines are > pretty useless to him. > I think Dr. Jacobs used his abilities as a historian to great benefit > in his abduction investigations; it's a much different viewpoint than > the usual doctor-patient relationship. We recently had a psychiatrist join our ranks in MICAP. We met with him for lunch and asked him various questions about the abduction phenomenon. We were surprised with the answers. This person has been practicing a number of years. He deals with the general community as well as two mental hospitals in the Denver area. He stated that in all of his years of working with patients, he has never heard one claim of abduction. Sheldon brings up a very good point regarding the pre-disposition of the alleged abductee seeking out a hypnotherapist or doctor in psychology for the exploration of a possible abduction experience. If the alleged abductee has already suspected an abduction, it requires further study to determine alleged abduction experiences among a random sampling of the general population to determine the numbers reporting such an event. According to recent findings released by Hopkins, after conducting a Roper poll, it is believed that as many as 17% of the population could be an abductee. This translates into an incredible number of potential abductees among the general population. I find it quite unusual that a psychiatrist would not have at least one person in his client base telling him this story. Although one psychiatrist's testimony does not invalidate Hopkins' findings, it is worthy of study to make some determination based upon random sampling. Mike -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mrc-crc.ac.uk!sgamble Subject: Rocky Mountain UFO Conference Date: 4 Apr 92 20:11:52 GMT From: sgamble@mrc-crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) I attended this last year and was suprised to find that a large proportion of the attendees were contactees/abductees. I hope to attend again this year. Are any of the other Abductions contributors planning to go? It is in Laramie last week of June. Steve. -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mrc-crc.ac.uk!sgamble Subject: Dave Jacobs New Book Date: 4 Apr 92 20:12:06 GMT From: sgamble@mrc-crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) Hi David, Your book seems to have been very well received in the US. Are there any plans to release it in the UK? If so, do you have any details like dates, publisher? Regards Steve Gamble -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Keith Basterfield) Subject: Research Date: 3 Apr 92 02:33:00 GMT My apologies for not posting for a while-I am still waiting for my copy of David Jacob's book so cannot comment on this yet. Also, I have been busy on other aspects of UFOlogy. -- Keith Basterfield - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Keith.Basterfield@f12.n1040.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff) Subject: Overweight? Date: 5 Apr 92 04:04:01 GMT In a message to David Jacobs <02-March-92 10:11> Jim Speiser wrote: JS> You say the 40% overweight figure "probably" shows up in the JS> abductee population as well; are you aware of whether or not a JS> study has been done on this? I am not aware of any substantiating inquiries into this aspect, but from my limited experience, it certainly seems greater than 40%. I'll carry this thread a step further to state that it also appears as though a disproportionate number of overweight women "see" UFO's. I base this observation on the many photographs and videotapes I have examined. This overweight state appears to hold true for female abductees only. What do you think? JS> This makes three of the four people I've dealt with (the fourth JS> is almost painfully skinny). An admittedly very small sample, JS> but it got me wondering. Me too, Jim... -- Sheldon -- Sheldon Wernikoff - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff) Subject: abduction research Date: 5 Apr 92 04:06:02 GMT In a message to John Hicks <03-March-92 19:03> Michael Corbin wrote: MC> I find it quite unusual that a psychiatrist would not have at MC> least one person in his client base telling him this MC> (abduction) story. Although one psychiatrist's testimony does MC> not invalidate Hopkins' findings, it is worthy of study to make MC> some determination based upon random sampling. Actually Mike, this evidence does seem to be the rule rather than the exception. I was just speaking with Mark Rodeghier about this the other night, and he agreed that we just don't see abduction experiences being exposed spontaneously during the course of psychotherapy. It is virtually unheard of, except for a mere handful of cases. If this circumstance is in fact true, the implications are obvious. -- Sheldon -- Sheldon Wernikoff - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Sheldon Wernikoff) Subject: _Secret Life_ reviewed Date: 6 Apr 92 04:35:02 GMT Hello David, The following review of your book _Secret Life_, was published in The Chicago Tribune newspaper, 30-March-92, and was written by Lynn Van Matre, staff writer. I thought it might interest you. ................................................................. ALIENS FROM SPACE 'ARE NOT HERE TO HELP US' Abducted by aliens! It's the stuff of tabloid headlines and comedy routines, conjuring up images of science-fiction films and big-eyed beings. But for the more than 60 people whose experiences figure in David Jacobs' engrossing _Secret Life_, it's no joke. It's nightmarish reality. Jacobs, a history professor at Pennsylvania's Temple University and a UFO researcher for the last 25 years, acknowledges that the concept is "inherently unbelievable". Still, he contends, the similarities of scores of firsthand accounts, most obtained by Jacobs from subjects under hypnosis, men, women and children describe being taken forcibly from their homes and cars (generally at night), transported aboard spacecraft and subjected to a variety of medical examinations. Descriptions of the abductors are often strikingly similar; so are the procedures, which generally involve reproductive organs and leave physical traces such as scars. Some abductees later discover small metallic balls in their nasal or sinus cavities. Are these people victims of mass hysteria? Attention-craving charlatans out to make a buck? Obviously, the possibility of mental illness or fraud is present in all reported UFO encounters. But these abductees report no problems with mental instability; many holding demanding jobs in law, medicine, education, and the media. (Names have been changed in the interests of privacy, but correct ages and occupations are given). What's more, according to Jacobs, who addresses the possibilities of fraud and psychological problems at length, most of these abductees are not familiar with UFO literature. They make no attempt to capitalize on their experience in terms of money or fame; instead, they devoutly wish it had never happened. Why are these abductions happening? Jacobs speculates that aliens may need humans to help them produce other beings via the harvesting of eggs and sperm. While the aliens are not necessarily malevolent, "They are not here to help us," Jacobs concludes. ................................................................. Van Marte also critiqued Ellen Crystall's new book _Silent Invasion: The Shocking Discoveries of a UFO researcher_, far less favorably than your work I might add. Take care, -- Sheldon -- Sheldon Wernikoff - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f605.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird) Subject: Re: Research Date: 6 Apr 92 05:44:00 GMT Hi Keith, Your article came,and I thank you very much. I have the Mufon material ready that I think you want, and will send it to you this week. Thanks again, Linda -- Linda Bird - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird) Subject: Re: Overweight? Date: 6 Apr 92 05:48:00 GMT Hi Sheldon, It is interesting that you bring up the overweight factor in regards to female abductees. I was able to meet Debbie Tomey of Budd Hopkins' book INTRUDERS and she is on the plump side. Regards, Linda -- Linda Bird - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Linda.Bird@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser) Subject: Re: Overweight? Date: 6 Apr 92 06:13:00 GMT My only experiences thus far have been with female abductees (and one male whom we agreed is probably not one). So I'm not in a position to judge at this point. Jim -- Jim Speiser - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG ******************************************************************************** For permission to reproduce or redistribute this digest, contact: DOMAIN Michael.Corbin@paranet.org UUCP scicom!paranet.org!Michael.Corbin ****************A**B**D**U**C**T**I**O**N****D**I**G**E**S**T******************* Submissions UUCP {ncar,isis,csn}!scicom!abduct Submissions DOMAIN abduct@scicom.alphacdc.com Admin Address abduct-request@shemtaia.weeg.uiowa.edu Mail to private Paranet/Fidonet addresses from the newsletters: DOMAIN firstname.lastname@paranet.org UUCP scicom!paranet.org!firstname.lastname ****************A**B**D**U**C**T**I**O**N****D**I**G**E**S**T*******************